Intention
Topic: temptation and karma - Sundar Naga Started 11 years, 11 months ago
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Posted 12 years ago
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David and Kirsten(sp?), This is Sundar. Thank you both so much for being my true spiritual partners in our group discussion last night in the Authentic Power course through the Shift Network. I thought of sharing with you both what I found in Gary’s “Soul to Soul” book this morning on p. 291 in his answer to the question: Can awareness overcome temptation? What I seem to understand from the answer is that the temptation is the intention of the fp’s. The temptation has no power over us. But, those fp’s have power over us. Because until we acknowledge and change those fp’s, they will act as they choose. Temptation is a gift from the Universe because it brings the intentions of the fp’s into our awareness and forces us to make a choice – to act on them or not. It is a gift from the Universe because it graciously provides us an opportunity “to see the negativity in ourselves so that we can heal it before it spills over into the lives of others and creates consequences that we would not want to experience”. I assume the above implies that there is, theoretically speaking, no negative karma yet at the stage of temptation. It becomes a negative karma if we end up acting on that temptation. This seems to be supported by Gary’s statement on p. 246 that karma is the experience of what we have created. At the temptation level, we have not created anything yet. However, from a practical standpoint, I assume it is not a good idea to consider the above as an excuse to keep encouraging such a temptation in the thought form because it increases the probability of our acting on it eventually. That is, temptation is not yet a negative karma does not mean that we can encourage such a temptation. Our duty and responsibility is to become aware of the corresponding fp’s and the negativity that the temptation points to and change them. David, am I right to say that you were making such a point? If not, please help me understand better. Thank you again so much. |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Sundar, I just thought I’d share my point of view as in doing so it does help me. I personally don’t have a moral judgement on whether or not I encourage a temptation. In my opinion doing so is neither good nor bad. If continued it will however produce negative consequences for myself and others as I will eventually make a choice (act) from that FP (which is the source of the temptation). I personally don’t want that. However, the idea of encouraging a temptation points to the power of the FP on the personality. If I am encouraging it that most likely means I am dealing with a FP that has a lot of power and is in need of healing. Free will is the healing vehicle and must be used in the moment I experience the FP for healing to occur (my opinion). If for example I am experiencing a temptation. Let’s say a temptation to use drugs. In the moment that the temptation arises I will be sure to experience pain in my body when I contemplate not indulging the temptation (i.e. not enjoying the fantasy of the temptation). If I chose not to indulge in the temptation and chose love instead I am in that moment growing in authentic power. However, any temptation points to an FP and the stronger the temptation the more ‘significant’ the FP. So, the FP must be addressed or the temptation will return and the cycle will restart. And that for me is the tremendous beauty behind a temptation. It will never leave me alone till I address the real pain in me. It doesn’t get any more beautiful than that. The work however for me has been very, very difficult but also very, very rewarding. Of course this is just my opinion of how I understand Gary’s work in my life. Thanks, |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Sundar, What do you feel in your energy centers when you consider these questions? Is it possible that you have a frightened part of your personality that needs to intellectualize or figure things out? With Love, David |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Eric, Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful thoughts (I am sorry about the delay in my response; final exams, grading, etc.). I understand Gary’s work the same way as you do. I really enjoyed reading your following words: “any temptation points to an FP and the stronger the temptation the more ‘significant’ the FP. So, the FP must be addressed or the temptation will return and the cycle will restart. And that for me is the tremendous beauty behind a temptation. It will never leave me alone till I address the real pain in me. It doesn’t get any more beautiful than that.” Yes, very well said, I think. It doesn’t get any more beautiful than that. Now, I realize that I didn’t make one major intention behind my post clear enough at all. (I was addressing the spiritual partner David specifically as a continuation of our conversation the previous night during the Authentic Power course, but that is no excuse.) Let me now attempt to make it clearer. An important question that I like to get completely clarified is: Does the very thought in the form of a temptation, by itself, lead to a negative karma, or, does one accrue the negative karma only when one acts on that temptation? The above question happens to be important to me because as I was growing up, I was taught (or at least I thought I was taught) that bad thoughts, bad actions and bad words lead to bad karma. But, much later in my life, when I was reading Gary’s Seat of the Soul and his analysis of temptation in the book, I felt that Gary’s words of wisdom pointed to the opposite of what I had been taught with respect to negative thoughts (I do prefer Gary’s ‘negative’ to ‘bad’). I felt that Gary’s words of wisdom regarding temptation made a lot more sense (as did his whole book because it offered me a number of missing links and allowed me to make a lot of powerful connections that were missing earlier in my endeavor to understand life). However, of course, there is always a possibility that I didn’t understand Gary’s analysis correctly. My sincere quest since reading Gary’s work has been to make sure that I do understand Gary’s analysis correctly; to make sure that negative thoughts by themselves do not lead to negative karma and one accrues negative karma only when one acts on them. In fact, after reading your beautiful post, the thought I have is: like Eric says, it cannot get any more beautiful than that. The very function of a temptation is to point to a corresponding fp that is trying to become active and we need to take the efforts to make sure that we don’t end up acting on it. So, how can a temptation, in other words, a negative thought, lead to a negative karma? It seems to defeat its purpose. However, as I mentioned earlier, I think I am at a stage in my quest when I like to be told directly and pointedly whether or not a negative thought leads to a negative karma. Because, it seems to me that either answer would have profound implications of its own. If you like to share any thoughts, I would love to read. Thank you again. |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Sundar, |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Sundar, You may be interested in a book Gary Zukav co-wrote with his spiritual partner Linda Francis called, The Mind of the Soul. They co-wrote a few others including The Heart of the Soul. Those two I found particularly helpful in my understanding of authentic power and tools to help me do the work. There is a chapter in The Mind of the Soul specifically on Temptation. And this line I believe answers your question which I am quoting from that chapter, “A temptation is a dress rehearsal for a negative karmic event.” I would suggest (in my opinion) that your original teaching and Gary’s are quite close. In my opinion Gary is suggesting that the negative karmic event takes place when you make some type of choice/action but that any temptation that lives in thought and is nurtured in thought will lead to that action eventually. It’s almost like your original teaching was implying the obvious by suggesting that a thought form of temptation created negative karma (i.e. if you hold it longer enough it will manifest). ahh, but in the end the real quest is choosing love in light of fear the moment that one becomes aware that fear is present. It’s a tough road but the alternative is much worse (in my opinion). best of luck, |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Sundar, I invite you to use your intuition to get clarity on temptation and then experiment with whatever comes to you. I am interested in hearing any insights you discover about yourself. With Love, David |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Kelley, Thank you for sharing. What you say is exactly what I am also thinking. What I like to know from you is whether “negative (fearful) thoughts don’t lead to negative karma” is a direct quote of what Gary says in any of his books (or any other writings) or your inference from what all Gary has written or said (the same way it happens to be my inference also). If it is the former, I would really really appreciate if you can point me to the reference. Thank you again for being a spiritual partner (what a great concept from Gary and Linda). |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Eric, Thank you for being a wonderful spiritual partner and pointing me to the Mind of the Soul by Gary and Linda. You are right. “A temptation is a dress rehearsal for a negative karmic event” is indeed a very powerful statement. On the previous page (in the previous chapter on The Inside Story, Gary writes: “Temptation is a gift from the Universe that illuminates negativity in you so that you can recognize it before you act”. The question that arises in me is: If it is a gift meant in such a good intention by the Universe, how can it lead to a negative karma (namely painful consequences)? On the same page, Gary also writes: “What you refuse to acknowledge in yourself begins to fill your thoughts and fantasies. If you ignore it, it appears in full color on the screen of your mind. That is a temptation.” Then, he says: “It allows you to see your inside story before it becomes your outside story.” In the chapter on Temptation, Gary says: “Jonathan’s temptation did not ruin the life he loved. Jonathan’s actions did those things.” Among what I remember in Gary’s writings, this seems to be the closest to saying categorically that temptations or negative thoughts do not lead to negative karma. Now, regarding the comparison between Gary’s work and what I was told by religious teachers as I was growing up. I wrote in my first post in this thread: “[that] temptation is not yet a negative karma does not mean that we can encourage such a temptation. Our duty and responsibility is to become aware of the corresponding fp’s and the negativity that the temptation points to and change them.” I also wrote: “[that temptation is not yet a negative karma cannot be] an excuse to keep encouraging such a temptation in the thought form because it increases the probability of our acting on it eventually.” Eric, I think you point out the same thing also. However, what I feel is that it is one thing to say that a negative thought leads to negative karma and another thing to ask us to be careful enough because a negative thought, when nurtured, has the ultimate potential to lead us into acts or words that would accrue negative karma. In fact, after trying to understand Gary’s amazingly wonderful work, it seems to me that one has to go a step further and say that it is very important to pay attention to our negative thoughts since they are ‘a gift from the Universe that illuminate negativity in us so that we can recognize it before we act’. We need to experience the negative thoughts to figure out the fp’s in us so that we don’t act on them, instead of shying away from those negative thoughts as implied by the advice that they lead to negative karma. I am not sure whether I am making myself clear or not. I will be willing to add more if I am not clear enough. Thank you, Eric, again for being such a wonderful spiritual partner. |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi David, Thank you very much for those very important questions. After reading your post, I have been trying to focus. I don’t seem to feel painful sensations in my energy centers when I consider these questions. Should I feel any? If so, I must not be scanning properly. Probably I need to also seek clarification from you. When I try to check the definition of “intellectualize”, I find the following: to seek or consider the rational form or content of. Is it possible this is wrong? I also find: to examine or interpret rationally, often without proper regard for emotional considerations. I am wondering whether you use the term in this sense. Am I ignoring any emotional consideration while raising these questions? If so, I would love to know how. It is important I address any corresponding fp. You also say: “or figure things out”. Yes, I think I am trying to figure things out regarding negative thoughts vs negative karma (especially given what I think I was taught when I was growing up, as I elaborate in my previous posts). I really don’t know whether an attempt to figure things out springs from and points to any fp. Is it supposed to create painful sensations in the energy centers and am I ignoring such sensations? Thank you very much for being such a wonderful spiritual partner. |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Sundar, Thx for sharing. Why I am so attracted to this work is because it is all about the practice. And that part is hard. I have been working through my fair share of temptations and choosing love in the light of them has made me become stronger. Often when they come to me now they feel like they are coming from a spoiled little kid wanting to eat lots of chocolate right before dinner. I am more capable of responding to it with the much healthier part of me. I hope you share with us your experiences of working through temptation as I am sure we can all benefit. Eric |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Dear Sundar, I am going to quote Gary in a moment, but before I do, I want to suggest that only YOU know what is true for you, no matter what source tells you it’s so (or not so). Love, |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Sundar, There is always something to feel in your body, but you may not yet be aware of it. There are always either painful sensations (indicative of active frightened parts of your personality) or pleasing sensations (active loving parts of your personality) and sometimes both. However, indulging a frightened part tends to mask the pain. One way to experiment and notice if you have painful sensations or a frightened part about something is to do something different than you usually do. For example, if you usually find yourself withdrawing and being silent in a group because of fear, you may notice painful sensations when you decide to speak. If you usually find yourself filling the space with talking because of fear, you may notice painful sensations when you decide to listen. If you suspect that you have a frightened part that is intellectualizing, then you could experiment by not thinking about or discussing the topic any longer, i.e. by not continuing to ask the question and and be ok with not getting the answer that you want. If you have a frightened part that is intellectualizing, you may notice some pain in your body and perhaps a compulsion to continue the discussion. If you decide to experiment with this, let me know what you observe. With Love, David |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi Spiritual partners, I was reading this thread and would like to share my 2 cents. What our thoughts are at any given moment are a reflections our past experiences, thoughts, emotions and conditionings of the past. It includes our entire past and likely the past of humanity and the cultures we are born in or live in. (current or past lifetimes if we chose to believe them. I donot think we have any control on our thoughts in the present moment -in the sense we are at a fork in the road because of where we have been, I think we shouldnt judge the current thoughts as good or bad as they are what they are. We cannot act on them unless we accept them.Once we have acknoledged them and felt what they have to teach us we can chose what we want to promote or act on. For example if I have been depressed I might think the same thoughts for a while until I deal with root of the issue. Hence thoughts will have consequences albeit minimal. They get stronger and more powerful and even more powerful if we act on them. In the above example if I chose to do things that get me out of my depressed mood slowly i am creating a happier me. As the thoughts clear and actions follow my depression is getting better. I am not all better overnight but I am getting stronger. Accepting what is in the present moment and having spells where you are not atached to thoughts will make the path easier. Labeling the present as good or bad will be more difficult not impossible. Being gentle, kind and loving to the soul in each of us regardless of where we have been makes it easier. with loving intentions Radhika |
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Posted 12 years ago
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Hi David the spiritual partner, Thank you very much. With love, |
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