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Topic: Our parents our 'best supporters'? - Jeroen Started 11 years, 7 months ago

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
Posted 12 years ago

Commenting on today’s session of the Authentic Power Learning Community: I recognize the enormous value of exploring painful patterns that are activated in us by the interaction with family-members, and to come to terms with it. I have been trying to do this for many years now.
However, I feel I have to challenge your view, Gary, that our parents are the ‘souls that are closest to us’, and that they are our ‘best supporters’. In my view, this is certainly not always the case. What to think of the baby girl who was sexually abused by her parents? Or the Dutchman who was arrested yesterday on suspicion of throwing his 3-year old son from the window of the 8-th story of an apartment building in Amsterdam?
Clearly, the reality is that many parents do not love their children, but loathe them and abuse them from birth. It is right that such parents should lose the custody of their children, and it is right for the children to be very angry at their parents for their inexcusable behavior and to blame them for what was done to them!
This is one the great taboo subjects in society today, and in my opinion, it is the cause of all evil, because many adults who have survived such treatment as children, but have not consciously felt the pain and the anger, will either become ill, or unconsciously take revenge on others, sometimes on entire communities. I have read studies on the childhood of Adolf Hitler, most notably by psychoanaylist Dr. Alice Miller (1923-2010), from which can be concluded that Hitler was a victim of unimaginable child abuse at the hands of his father, and that literally no one helped him as a child. Miller writes: “Is it still possible in today’s Germany to escape the realization that without the mistreatment of children, without a form of child-rearing based on violence to inculcate blind obedience, there would not have been a Hitler and his followers?” (http://www.naturalchild.org/alice_miller/adolf_hitler.html) I agree with her.
To feel what has been done to us by the people who should love us most (but in reality do not always do) is certainly necessary to save our souls. It is liberating, but it is a difficult process, especially because it remains a taboo-subject in all societies, that in fact, our parents can be our greatest enemies and are not always the souls who want the best for us. As a result, many therapists tend to cover up the real issue, by protecting the interests of the parents instead of the child, and by advising their patients to forgive, by which they mean to not feel the justified anger and hate towards their aggressors.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Jeroen, As I read your post, it feels like the topic of exploring painful patterns that are activated in us by the interaction w/family members, brought up very strong feelings/emotions in you.
Have you explored in yourself what and where these painful emotions are in your body and the thoughts that accompany them…do you notice what specific physical sensations your feel around your energy centers, like sharp, dull, aching…and the particular kinds of thoughts you are having, like depressed, angry, resentful, or violent fantasies? I am doing my best to support you as a spriritual partner in noticing what is happening inside of you…and to support you in sharing what you are learning about yourself.
To me, it feels like your post is giving your opinion, with a website to back up what you are saying… Since the purpose of the community board is help us create authentic power and be spiritual partners to one another instead of agreeing or giving theories, I am using my courage to share this with you.
You may not be aware of the “Online Guidelines”, located on the “home page” of the community board, which provides guidelines for sharing on the community board. I feel it would be helpful to you, to read them.
I would enjoy getting to know you, and what you are learning about yourself from your experiences on the APLC calls. Blessings, Gail

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Gail, thank you for choosing to use your courage to share your thoughts with me. Indeed, painful patterns with regard to our reaction with family members still bring up strong feelings in me. These patterns have been a dominant factor to me for most of my life, indeed they shaped my life, and only now am I learning how to deal with them. You may remember I was the first speaker during the first APLC online session, when I talked being abused as a child. I understand that the purpose of the community board is to write what I am learning about myself, and to facilitate the creation of authentic power. I wanted to ask Gary about his view that our parents are our best supporters and that they are the souls that are closest to us during last Saturday’s live session, but unfortunately I did not get through. Maybe my comment does not fully qualify to be posted here, but I believe it needed to be said. If the administrator wishes to remove me from the board, I will accept this. I willingly took this risk when I posted my comment. I have asked Gary to respond, but unfortunately he did not. The reason why my post is so important to me, is that when I have to believe that my parents were my biggest supporters, I have to deny to myself that my parents were not, and it prevents me from feeling it, which in turn prevents me from becoming authentically empowered. Gary’s view is no exception. But in my experience, there are very many people who say they had a wonderful childhood and loving parents, but who in actual fact are denying the truth, because the truth is very painful, and because society does not back adults who were abused as children, let alone adults who dare to feel that they were. It may well be the case that Gary is one of these people. We are told by society that we should forgive our parents, and are medicated if we become depressed, instead of receiving understanding and recognition for what has been done to us by our own parents, and we are not encouraged to feel our justified anger and pain. This is why I believe Gary’s view that our parents are our greatest supporters is so detrimental and even dangerous, because it helps to cover up, in my opinion, the damage that was inflicted upon us by many of our parents, and it does not help us feeling what needs to be felt and experienced to become whole, to become authentically empowered. I want to add that I have great respect for Gary as a person. I am sure his intentions are sound, and that he is contributing greatly to the personal development of many of us. But this issue is too important for me not to mention, and not to get an answer to. I will lose trust in Gary’s message otherwise, which would mean I would no longer wish to be a member of this community. And yes, I added a link to my comment, because I believe it illustrates my point of view perfectly, and this can be of great value to other members to understand the dynamics of child abuse and its consequences when adults do not feel and do not recognize what was done to them as children.

Posted 12 years ago

Gail, this does not mean that I have fully succeeded in really feeling everything that happened to my during my childhood. I am still learning to do this. To be honest, I still resist fully feeling everything, but I am trying to be more conscious of all my feelings. The family pattern in my case was that I was punished, hated, or completely ignored, when I dared to notice the abuse, and to feel and express my emotions. I now realize that these ‘forbidden’ emotions need to be felt if I want to be authentically empowered. But this is very difficult, because the fact these emotions were forbidden for so long, scares me, and almost automatically prevents me from feeling. Except when I choose to be courageous enough to feel them anyway. Plus, feeling my real emotions, and expressing them, has led to being ostracized in my family. I am being completely ignored now, because I had the audacity to becoming aware of the abuse in the past, and expressing my feelings of anger and pain. This was not accepted in my family, and I think it will never be, because I touched on a taboo-subject. It means I am very alone now, I have no contact with family members any more, except for a cousin. But I still feel I am on the right path, namely to become aware of the truth, and to accept and to express this.
I am often aware of a dull but persistent bad feeling in my body, near my stomach. Interestingly this is where my pancreas is, which stopped functioning about 10 years ago. My white blood cells have destroyed my pancreas, so now I am dependent of injecting insulin every day, otherwise I will die. I believe there may be a connection between my previously denied and blocked emotions and my present illness.
I want to thank you for your willingness to support me as a spiritual partner, and I hope I can support you likewise.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Jeroen, I am learning that becoming emotionally aware, is an ongoing process…and I appreciate your willingness
to share what your experiences have been so far. Anytime I am aware that I have resistance to feeling, is an
indication to me that a frightened part of my personality is active, because it hurts…

I feel you are spot on, when you say that you believe there may be a connection between your previously denied and blocked
emotions and your current illness. As I have been learning about and practicing emotional awareness and creating
authentic power, I have come to view these uncomfortable/painful sensations in my body as messages from my
soul… as something that is significant for me to pay attention to by feeling them as deeply and fully as I can, with the intention
to heal…I have also come to see that my negative and judgmental thoughts keep me in my head and distract me
from fully feeling the pain that the frightened parts of my personality seek to escape from.

I have also come to believe, that my family….especially my family, are my greatest teachers/supporters to me in my spiritual growth in that
they trigger in me the most painful feelings that I believe I was born to experience and heal.

I don’t know if any of this resonates with you Jerone, I just wanted to share some of what I have been learning I continue on my path.
“Heart of the Soul” and “Soul to Soul” have supported me tremendously in learning more about myself and emotional awareness and the
creation of authentic power. As an experiment, you could check with your intuition and see what would be most support to you at this precious
place and time that you are experiencing. Thank you so much for sharing, it has been very supportive to me. Blessings, Gail

Posted 12 years ago

Thank you, Gail, for your comments. The reason I am here, the reason why I am became interested in Gary’s views in the first place, is to understand myself, and to find the real me. What I think is particularly valuable about Gary’s teachings, is that they provide a more structured, methodic way of becoming more aware of my feelings and intentions, and eventually to prevent my sub-consciousness from controlling me, owing to lack of understanding. Again, this is why acknowledging and feeling what happened to me during my childhood and adolescence is so important. I fully agree with you that “resistance to feeling is an indication to me that a frightened part of my personality is active.” What makes it all the more difficult to feel, is when certain feelings are taboo, when we are not supposed to feel them, for example feeling that our parents are not our biggest supporters, and that they are not the souls that are closest to us. And yet, this is what I am feeling, when I am honest to myself, and it is the complete opposite of what Gary is telling me to believe. It reminds of a discussion I saw on the Oprah Winfrey Show a couple of years ago, when a guest said: “All parents love their children,” to which Oprah replied: “This is simply not true.” I agree with Oprah, it is simply not true. This is why I distance myself from Gary’s view on this particular subject.
The souls that are closest to me are the souls that love me and accept me for who I am. That is a far cry from what my mother represented. To be my biggest supporter, I feel it would have been necessary for my mother to have loved me, to have helped me, and to have respected my integrity. None of which were the case. In fact my mother wanted me dead when I was very small, and at some deep level I have sensed that when I was very young. Obviously it damaged me, and it shaped my life.
I do believe however, that it is important to forgive, in the sense that it is destructive for yourself to keep on hating someone who hurt you in the past. One has to move on, which does not mean that you forget, or you downplay what the other person did to you. I can see now my mother is a very sick person with many unresolved issues in her childhood, which she projected on me as a child.
I agree with you that especially our family can trigger the most painful feelings in us that we can possibly experience. Being unwanted as a child is one such experience I am still trying to fully feel. You mention that your parents are the greatest teachers/supporters in your spiritual growth. Supporters? Not in my case. My parents were indifferent to my spiritual growth. I have been growing spiritually without their support. I agree with the view of the Dalai Lama, who said that we can learn a great deal about ourselves from our enemies. This is the most positive view I can take on my parent’s role in my personal and spiritual development. My mother was my greatest, not my greatest supporter.
I agree with you, that “uncomfortable and painful sensations in the body are messages from the soul as something that is significant for me to pay attention to, by feeling them as deeply and fully as I can.” I am learning to do this, but it is very difficult for me, because it is the exact opposite of what I have been taught by my parents: they basically taught me not to notice, not to feel. What would help me most is to talk to people who have had the same experiences as I had with my parents, so that we can support each other. I wonder if there is anyone in this community who regocnizes what I have discussed so far? Thank you again, Gail, your comments have been a great help to me.

Posted 12 years ago

Wow this conversation has brought up so much for me. Thank you Jeroen for using your courage to begin this discussion. I remember years ago when my brother tried to bring up the same conversation with me and our family. I immediately shut him down. I didn’t want to discuss anything unpleasant. I didn’t realize at the time, this reaction was from a frightened part of my personality that was too terrified to feel the depth of the pain that he was willing to explore. I blamed him for wanting to dig into something that was no longer relevant and bring up something that my frightened parts felt were best kept buried. The wall I put up between him and me was much easier than feeling the pain and the vulnerability that would come up by bringing up the trauma of the past. I lived unconsciously for many years trying to avoid feeling my painful emotions by blaming.
When I first read your post, I wasn’t sure what to do. A frightened part of my personality became active and I didn’t want to respond to you, this frightened part wanted to go back to pretending everything was okay and to ignore the feelings that your post were bringing up in me. I had pain in my forehead, terrible allergies began and my right eye began to swell up and my vision in that eye was blurry. I also had indigestion. Paying attention to all the pain helped me realize I had a frightened part active and it was my turn to choose. I knew that I wanted to choose love but my frightened parts were active and confusing me. I didn’t know what to do so I called a spiritual partner for support. She reminded me that by my actions I wasn’t challenging this frightened part but that I was indulging the frightened parts and believing the fear. I got off the phone with her and sat quietly to think about what she said. What fear was she talking about? I realized that my fear is that I am powerless, there is too much pain and destruction and you would be angry with me if I said anything. I decided that the best way to challenge this fear is to post you a response and see what happens.
Something very interesting also came about because of the timeliness of your post. I have a new clarity on the violence and destruction that is happening around me. I can now see that the Boston bombing and my family abuse bring up the same frightened parts in me. The violence and destruction is all the same, whether it is behind closed doors or in the middle of a city for all to see. For me to create Authentic Power, I must open my eyes, feel everything that is coming up, and make the healthiest most loving choice in every moment, no matter what others are doing or might do.
Sending you love
Lori

Posted 12 years ago

Thank you, Lori, for your comments, I can feel it took considerable courage for you to share your thoughts and experiences. I understand and recognize what you say about the deep fear of feeling the enormous pain that underlies the physical sensations that you are now aware of. Indeed, this touches on my greatest problem as well, that is that feeling our traumas may not be without risk if we have to face it alone. In the words of Alice Miller: ”The result of any traumatic experience, such as abuse, can only be resolved by experiencing, articulating and judging every facet of the original experience within a process of careful therapeutic disclosure.” In other words, one has to treat one’s traumas very carefully, preferably with a therapist. In my experience however, therapists tend not to be open to reliving the abuse we suffered as a child, rather, they tend to want to medicate and cover up these feelings, which we need to feel if we want to recover from the trauma.
I could not agree more with what you write about the Boston bombing: the violence and destruction within the family is the same as in the middle of a city, though different in its manifestation. Many people do not understand how a nice, intelligent boy can be can capable of such a heinous and terrible crime. But this becomes clear when we look closely at what happened during the early childhood of any terrorist or criminal. The bombing in Boston is the last chapter of a book that started at the beginning of his life. If we study his life carefully, we will find that great pain was inflicted on him, but he was not allowed to feel, even notice this. But subconsciously, the knowledge of what happened is still there, and if it does not become conscious knowledge, by means of feeling, tragedies like the bombing in Boston will happen again and again.
I am very thankful that you took the effort to respond to my message, Lori, and am impressed by your courage to want to feel what comes up and to respond from the healtiest, most loving parts of you.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Jeroen,
When you say that great pain was inflicted on this young man and he was not allowed to feal or notice his pain do you mean that he chose not to feel his pain? For me when I know that I have a frightened part of my personality active I have two choices I can act from fear or I can act from love. If I choose fear if I choose to believe my thoughts that I am a victim, or I am superior, or I blame others for how I feel and I act on that fear than I am also choosing the consequences that come from that fear. I was talking to a spiritual partner the other day about the bombings in Boston she said when will these acts of violence and fear end than she said when it ends in me. I found that to be very supportive to me. Thanks for your post
Love, Joanne

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Joanne, I will try to answer your question. Yes, in my opinion the teenager who was arrested for the bombings in Boston chose not to feel the pain he had been subjected to during his early childhood, or at least chose not to seek help when he noticed he had a violent impulse. No matter how terrible our childhood may have been, nothing can take away the guilt if someone chooses to act on his/her violent fantasies and hurt other people as a result. Once a person notices the strong impulse to want to be violent or to use violence against others, no matter for what reason or justification , this should be a warning that he/she needs to find help. But this prospect is terrifying for some, when there is no awareness that they have been subject to great cruelty during their childhood. It can seem completely justified to these people to hurt or even kill people for a ‘just’ cause if childhood injuries remain unnoticed when they are adults. It is difficult to not give in to the temptation to act out, if people are not aware of the real cause of our own violent impulse. The temptation to act destructively is hard to resist for those people, until they succeed in making the connection between their violent thoughts and real events in their own past. This is why I think it is so important to really feel, to become aware of the reality of our childhood experiences. It is a great shame, in my opinion, that our mental health care system does not provide sufficient help in this respect.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Jeroen,

I read through the tread and enjoyed reading it. For me personally, there are 2 particular reasons that I have been attracted to Gary’s work. 1) Gary never asks me to believe anything he says. He simply offers to me what he believes and if I decide to experiment with it myself that’s cool (my choice) 2) he lives what he personally believes. He connects intellect with heart by living it.

I too was sexually abused as a young child. The point as I understand it is that what the abuser did was wrong. It was an act of violence. However, that violence was administered by the free will of the personality not by the soul of my abuser. For example, after being abused I had (and have) a lot of FPs. At a certain point later in life I began exploiting women. I made those choices and they were poor choices. I was actively acting out from frightened parts of my personality as a result of a childhood trauma. However, with love (energy of my soul) and choice (free will) I slowly began making healthier choices and my very active FP started getting smaller. My behaviors of exploiting women did not mean I was not a loving soul but rather at the time I was acting from fear and unable to access it (love). In my case who was more violent, my abuser or me years later exploiting women? If I chose the excuse that I exploited women because I was sexually abuse then I need to offer (forgive) an excuse for the person who abused me. If not, then I am condemned forever for the exploitation I did.

The person who sexually abused me was acting out of an FP at the moment I was being abused just as I was acting my own FP years later. I do not know what triggered the FP of the person who abused me just that it was triggered. Again, that does not negate the violence afflicted on me. But the energy between my abuser and me is only Love (from a soul to soul). At the moment of abuse the personality of the abuser chose (using free will) to act from fear but that this not make his soul any less loving. He just was not able to access it when he decided to abuse me.

For me the person who abused me has become my greatest gift (this is my personal view). As a result of the abuse I was forced to dig so very deep as a result of all the pain. And I have dug, dug, and dug deep inside and I have become a more loving personality than I personally ever thought possible. I often think it I were not abused I would have used my ‘gifts’ of a decent intellect and communication skills to simply try to make as much money as I can and not actually care about people but things.

The Christian metaphor of course is Jesus & Judas. Judas (out of free will) betrayed Jesus. Jesus experienced the pain of that choice (crucifixion) but transcended it by his resurrection (he was no longer a victim of Judas) and shaped mankind as a result. And so I too can move passed being simply a victim.

love,
Eric

p.s. i don’t actually practice as faith tradition just read up on the major ones.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Eric, thank you very much for your contribution. I am shocked and very sorry for you that you suffered sexual abuse as a child, this is a terrible experience. I agree that this was an act of violence that was inflicted on you, when you were a defenseless child. It is absolutely inexcusable. I am not sure what you mean by ‘FP’, but I take it you mean the opposite of authentic power. You say: “But the energy between my abuser and me is only Love”, and “The abuser chose to act from fear but that does not make his soul less loving.” The reality, in my opinion, is that first and foremost you were confronted with the abuser’s personality, which was not aligned with his soul. This non-aligned personality did a great deal of damage to you, and it would, in my opinion, be the most appropriate and healthy response on your part to be very angry and very hurt because of his irresponsible, selfish and criminal acts. I believe this is more important than putting the horrible acts of your abuser into perspective. If your strong emotions as a result of the abuse you suffered have not been fully felt, then there will be the risk that your trauma is not fully resolved. I hope for you that you have been able to, or will get, professional help to feel the pain and the justified anger for what was done to you, so that you will not have to act it out on other people and make more victims in the future.
You are right in saying that Gary does not ask people to believe anything. I feel the responsibility to take a critical view on his beliefs. As I have said, I oppose Gary’s opinion that, as a rule, our parents are our greatest supporters and that they are the souls being closest to us. In my opinion, this is not a general rule, but an ideal situation.

Posted 12 years ago

Hi Jereon,

Thanks for the response. By FP I simply meant ‘Frightened Part’ (of the personality). It’s been a wonderful journey for me. Definitely not an easy one but very life-transforming. I know how much pain it has been for me to experience sexual abuse. I have invested the majority of my adult life working through issues of intimacy. It has been very nice to experience much more light (less pain) now than I did in years past.

I believe there are many, many paths towards healing and everyone will eventually find the ones that work best for them. I personally have no interest in your changing any of your beliefs. I support you in whatever you choose to believe. That is not my aim. My only aim to to achieve more peace in my life and share that experience with those I interact with.

thanks again for sharing and you definitely supported me in many ways.

love,
Eric

Posted 12 years ago

Thank you, Eric, I recognize what you say about intimicy. For me this has also always been an issue, as is the issue of trust, especially trusting authority. This may be connected to my making a point of the disagreement I have with Gary over the position of parents in my life. Why do I want Gary to agree with me? I think it is because I want my experiences to be validated by him, and I want to be able to trust him. It is difficult for me to feel safe when his view on such a major issue as the role of parents seems flawed. I have been looking again at the spiritual partnership guidelines, and it has occurred to me that throughout the discussion my physical sensations were painful, especially in the chest area. On the telephone the other day, one of the members suggested I put my hand on the area where it hurt, and that helped a lot. So thank you for this suggestion. I feel I am still full of fear, because I am discussing a forbidden subject. I must admit that I have difficulty adhering to all the guidelines at the same time, they almost seem like a straightjacket within which I have to express myself, and I feel it can block me from speaking freely. So making my contribution s partly feels like I am transgressing the rules that Gary defined. Love to all, Jeroen

Posted 11 years ago

Hi Jeroen, I have just read all the sharing that has transpired from your first post. I too was abused as a child and my frightened part blocked the abuse and created an idealistic childhood. In my life, I became a protector of those who my frightened parts saw as vulnerable. I found that this created a disconnect in me with other souls because my frightened part was always on “alert”. I also always felt that I had witnessed an abuse to another little girl that my frightened part had created. Just two months ago at my 50th class reunion, I saw the eyes of a classmate and immediately started crying. What I discovered was that we were friends during the time of my abuse and having her as a friend created a safe haven for the pain I carried from the abuse of my father. From what Gary shares is I had a contract with my father which offered me an opportunity to heal a part of my soul. I feel for me that is what Gary meant if he said my father was my greatest supporter. I do know that my forgiving my father (feeling the contract that we had) allowed me to heal the disconnect/pain/feeling of responsibility for others in my life who I felt the need to protect. I feel we each have our unique journey through life and my intention is to be present with others who are on this healing journey with me by offering support through spiritual partnership. Thank you for your posts. Also, thank you to my other spiritual partners who shared on this subject. Blessings, Carol Ann

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